No Replacement For Displacement

I consider myself qualified to address this - others may not. I was Regular Army in 1969 and volunteered to go to 'Nam. I drove a deuce-and-a-half all over. We were overnight at Camp Zama and the perimeter was probed.
Damn Marines ran right by us. Had a 60 pig set up and the jarhead squad set up in front of us. "There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men."

Seems lame to run down the Army, unless you were a "crotch jarhead" yourself. I'm a veteran but no military expert. However, the marines seem to appear dumb on computer skills--perhaps that is why they don't know their asses from a "hole in the ground"...to quote an old sarge.

Seems lame to run down the Army, unless you were a "crotch jarhead" yourself. I'm a veteran but no military expert. However, the marines seem to appear dumb on computer skills--perhaps that is why they don't know their asses from a "hole in the ground"...to quote an old sarge.

Steve you state that it seems lame to run down the Army but apparently it's fine to run down the Marine Corp. I'm not sure where your theory on Marines lacking computer skills developed but i can assure you that you are misinformed. And in my experience the Army is lacking in training at least in boot camp and MOS(military occupational specialty) schools. I was stationed on an Army base for my MOS school and we trained with the Army. Our Army counterparts were downright nasty with regards to discipline, physical fitness, leadership, and basically everything. I'm not knocking the Army since the Marine Corp has flaws in training but just making the point that Marines tend to perform better in almost all situations.

Marines are dumb huh, and we dont know how to use a computer? Ehh. I just got out of the Corps about 4 months ago and just happened to be a Network Engineer & Webmaster for the Corps while I was in I spent 13 weeks in basic then 1 month in combat training then 11 months in information systems school and now Im the senior network admin for a marketing firm, but were all just idiots I guess. BTW I can nail a quarter in the center from 500 yards with my M-16. Go be an army of 1 or become a member of an elite team we like to call the few and the proud.

I have enjoyed reading all of your comments about this issue and I would agree with most of you on most of the issues but only on an amature level. What I mean by that is that I have never served in the military. I do plan on serving in the near future and have been stuggeling with this very issue. Joining the Marines vs joining the army, and I want to join the branch that I will perform best in and be trained the best. I refuse to believe that the army would knowingly train illprepaired soldiers. Does two extra weeks of basic or different DIs make that much of a difference? Rivalry and recruter B.S. aside i would welcome any more insight to this subject.

I've read both part 1 and part 2 of this entry.
First of all, I have to say I agreed with several quotes posted in part 1. Sorry I forgot who made them.

Let me start of by introducing myself a little bit. I am a Sergeant (E-5) in the Army. Soon, I will get my Commission to become an Infantry Officer. So when I make my post, I'll only bring in "enlightening" informations.

I don't want to offend anyone so please have "thick skin" when I say this (after, military personnel are supposed to have "thick skin").

Lots of the posts in part 2 so far were not mature. To those who want a more mature information/opinion about the two branches, here it is.

My opinion onf Army Boot is that it did change a lot since I graduated Basic. I went to Fort Benning; and it IS true that Fort Benning is the most difficult Basic Training post in the Army. I'm pretty sure all the posts, EXCEPT Benning and Sill, are "weaker" than Basic for the Marines. One of the reasons for this is the coed training in the other posts (I'm pretty sure Benning is still all males). I would have to say the intensity level of Benning and Sill is in par with Pendalton. But I do have to mention that you train in other things in Marine Boot than in Army Boot (ie: swimming/water survival). Ok, now thats when I went to Boot. Nowadays, the Army has gotten too P.C. (politically correct) and it sucks. I mean, what the hell is this Stress Card crap?! So basic training in a lot of places (hopefully still not at Benning) are made "easier."

But for new potential recruits (like Andrew) the bottom line is you are trained in basically the same thing in Army and Marine Boot. The thing that differs are the method of training. Both have BRM, but I a Marine friend of mine says that Army BRM is more practical - it trains more in combat firing. But if you want to argue distant accurate shooting (such as sniping, etc) than Marine BRM is stronger. Marines have the Crucible, but Army has the FTX (which was 5 days for me at Benning, but its usually 3). At the end, both soldier and Marine come out being able to perform basic combat skills. The question of who will perform better, I seriously have to say it's the individual. I know a lot of "ate-up" soldiers who make the Army look bad. But than, there are those types in the Marines too. At the same time, there are some Hooah soldiers and squared away Marines. But I agree on one thing the LT Marine posted in entry 1; the Marines do push harder on the discipline part. The Army used to be just as hard in that area but has recently been "dropping the ball" a little bit. However, I believe that with stronger leaders at the units can change that. So for potential recruits such as Andrew, in picking which Branch to be a part of, I don't think you should based your decision by what their Boot is like. Just remember, its not how tough Boot is that determines how great of a soldier/Marine you are, its how your unit is - Boot trains basics, your unit is where you train tactics, instill values, disciplines, etc.

So what should you look at when you need to pick one of the two Branches? The answer is this: what kind of job in the military do you want? After you have determined that, picking the branch should be next. To help you with that, here are the differences between the Army and Marines (again, I'm not dissing on or promoting one branch or the other):

MARINES - They are the 911 force. This is because: 1) they have less equipment than the Army, 2) most of them are on ships which are in the coastal areas of the hostile area. The main objectives of the Marines are: 1) safeguard the ships and docks, 2) go in first and establish a foothold in the hostile state/country. Every Marine is a rifleman first. So each Marine, regardless of MOS, are expected to perform with a rifle. They are, in my opinion, the premiere amphibious force. This means they can storm the hell out of beaches. I believe that this makes a Marine Infantryman in par (in training/skill) with an Airborne Infantryman in the Army - both of them being more "specialized" than regular Army Infantry (ie: mechanized). Marines do not have any special forces, but they do have whats called "special forces capable." They have MEU which are trained well enough to be considered special forces but they do not belong in SOCOM. Marines are the least funded, which can mean older equipment, etc. But recently they been getting some cool new stuff (ie: new camouflage). Marines do not have combat support (or have only a few). They don't even have Marine medics - they have Navy Corpsmen. Marines belong to the Department of the Navy, they do not have their own department. Thus, they are considered by some as "Sailors with rifles."

ARMY - They are the superior land force in the world. Currently, the Army is transforming. It used to be this heavy, slow powerhouse. Now, its transforming to become more of a medium, quick force. While Marines are "rifleman first," the Army is trying to make every unit (every MOS) "combatants" first; which is sort of the same idea. While Marines can storm the hell out beaches (which the Army will be weaker at), Army Infantry are trained to infiltrate from the sky. So focus on infiltration methods are different. The Army has special forces. They have the Rangers (who are the best light infantry in the world), Special Forces aka "Green Beret" (who are experts in unconventional warfare in wartime and diplomats in peacetime), and "Delta" (the elite counter-terrorism unit). The Army has combat support and service support. Therefore, the Army sustains itself while the Marines need the Navy. The Army is an occupying force. The Marines go in and establishes a foothold. After that is done, the Army will usually come in and take over. Once the Army comes in, the Marines job is pretty much complete (but that doesnt mean they are no longer used). The Army, being the occupational force, will stay there longer. Plus, not only does the Army occupy, but they are also the ones that sweep acroos the hostile country and "take over."

At the end, both branches focuses on different things (just like all special forces - green berets, SEALs, etc - do different things), so when it comes to it, you can't really say whos better than the other - they both specialize in different things. Also, as you progress in the military, you will learn that all branches work together. This is easily seen in Afghanistan. What happened first? Airstrikes by the Air Force/Navy. Then the Marines came in and took over Kandahar, etc. Once establishing it, who went in? The Army (101st Airborne). So again, both branches are different.

Lastly, to help you out, here's why I chose the Army over the Marines.
I have to admit, when I first started getting interested in the military, I looked at the Navy to be a pilot. After concluding that I wanted to be part of the ground force, I first looked at the Marines. But why did I chose the Army? Here's why:
1) Army gave more money and benefits
2) I didn't want to be on a boat for long periods of time
3) I'm not a good swimmer
The MOS I wanted, the Marines and Army does a lot of the same things, so why not get paided a little more? Also, I wanted to be part of the fuckin Rangers.

So basically thats it. Yes there are problems in Boot camp for the Army. I'm sure there are some in Marines Boot too. When it comes to difficulty, they both have events more difficult than their counterparts. With things like discipline, I believe Marines have it more difficult, but your unit is what makes the soldier/Marine who they are. Boot camp for any branch is doable. But don't take that as me saying that they're easy. Not everyone is made to be in the Army or the Marines (nor the Navy or Air Force - but they DO have the easiest Boot!).
Just remember this, wherever you go, commit to it. Perform the best you can and you'll be the better soldier/Marine. Any soldier can out perform a Marine and vice-versa. It's about how the individual takes it, trains, and performs.

At the very end, we're all U.S. Armed Forces. We need each other. Seriously, for me, I don't "Branch bash" (except for "shits and giggles" with my Marine friends). Remember we're all Americans - especially in the time of war. Each branch works with each other. Each branch has their professionals and their "scumbags."
The question is, which will YOU be?
Be professional. Have pride in your branch, your organization, and your unit. But overall, have pride in being an American and being in her Armed Forces - the most powerful military in the fuckin world!

That is all.
Lee, out.

- Sgt. James Lee
U.S. Army

I like how Sgt Lee put it all into perspective, way to go on that one. I do on the other hand have an objection, the Marine Corps does have a special forces unit or to be considered so. We have the Fast Company Infantry units, who are in roles like the Army Airbourne and the Force Reconnaissance battalions( Kinda like seals )other than that looks good.

As soon as I pressed "post," I remembered the Force Recon. I apologize to all Marines on that one. But even so, they are not under the umbrella of "Special Forces," which I think they should be since they are just a good and capable as the "official" Special Forces units. They can recon the hell out of anywhere. But I don't know about the whole "kinda like seals" part only because I doubt the Force Recon does underwater demolition (which is essentially what the SEALs are for). Also, I read that the USMC are developing a Counter-terrorist unit too. I think that unit would be modeled after the Army Delta, SEAL Team 6, and possibly the British SAS. Good... more units to go after Osama and his turbin-wearin hippie thugs! (No racial/cultural slurs intended)

But like I said before, both are squared away in their areas of expertise and both are necessary for the U.S. to succeed in kicking the shit out of other countries!!!

Sgt. James Lee
U.S. Army

im gona be leaving for the marines in october so i thought id chime in.

the marines are a smaller force than any other. since they focus on speed and brute force and/or stealth they dont rely as much on high-tech equipment but instead train to be masters of thier weapons and tactics. this allows them to get in do the job and either get out or hold it till the army gets there with thier mechanized/digital infantry units. they are the gladiators with no fear that run in with the saftey off and take care of things.

the army in my opinion rely's more on large numbers of troups and America's extremly superior technology. they play just as important a role as any other branch but they just are not as hardcore as the marines when it comes to un-mounted combat but they make up for it with things like apache longbows, M1A1 and those sweet M1A2 digital battle tanks, and the landwarrior system that the infantry is now using.

each branch is extremly important in has its role in the biger picture that is the US military but it basicly comes down to this:

if your joining the military for money or just to get an education, but feel dont want to risk your life for you country dont join at all.

if your joining for money and an education and want to serve your country and not have to worry about it as much join teh army

if your a die hard american that would do anything for your country and seek adventure. or just want to be an all around bad ass with no fear join the marines.

what ever you choose make sure you think about it first cause it makes me sad when i see all these people that join up for the money and now that we are going to war they are scared and want out. cause im joining to make a difrence in the world and dont want to serve with anyone who doesnt. which is why im joining the marines

I don't agree with your statement:
"the army in my opinion rely's more on large numbers of troups and America's extremly superior technology... not as hardcore as the marines when it comes to un-mounted combat but they make up for it with things like apache longbows, M1A1 and those sweet M1A2 digital battle tanks, and the landwarrior system that the infantry is now using."

Here is why that statement is somewhat wrong:
1) Most of the ground combat training doctrines come from the Army.
2) All equipments (including tanks, helicopters) are used to support the infantryman (army and marines). Remember, infantry is the heart of the military.
3) Most of the Commanders of conflicts (ie: General Tommy Franks for Operation Iraqi Freedom) are Army generals. They will not be able to be in this position, they will not be able to lead, if they do not have a clear understanding of "dismounted combat" since that is the center of the military.

Infantry, or dismounted combat training, between the Army and Marines are generally the same. The only differences are the minor things (ie: method of insertion, etc). If you got a bunch of soldiers and marines and made then one squad, they will still understand each other and will be able to work with each other.

Marines are hardcore. But the Army is not any "less hardcore." I think it's just the "friendly branch rivarly" that blinds a person from only seeing what they want to. And that is how each branch gets their personnel. As you go on up the ranks, you will see that each branch gets the best training for what their job requires.

And on the topic if "friendly rivalry," the Army is the one that focuses more on stealth. I mean moreso than the Marines. And thats because of the fact you mentioned: the Army gets more funding, thus have more equipment. Combat units in the Army has a little saying: "We own the night." Thats because we work in stealth.

Marines ARE hardcore. Army IS hardcore. But, again, that is only determined by the unit. If the unit and its leadership sucks ass, then they misrepresent their branch. You will always have those units. Just stay in the squared away ones.

Sgt. James Lee
U.S. Army

Go Army & Marines!