No Replacement For Displacement

The thing I've noticed in the 2 shows is that the Marines are always at attn or parade rest. The army recruits look like they're waiting for a bus, even when the DI is throwing their shit all around after failing an inspection.

Also, after six weeks of boot camp that guy failed the pushups. WTF is that?

Canteen on muzzle I can understand. Even though the M16 is only about 8 lbs., firing the thing from the standing position can fatigue the arms, especially if you lack a lot of upper-body strength. Adding weight to the weapon will make it seem lighter and easier to manage when it comes down to actual firing. As far as technogeeking goes, I have lost count of how many shooters I've coached who were flinching while trying to shoot. Dry-firing is about the best way to overcome that, even better if you have some sort of device to kick you in the shins every time you flinch and miss the simulated target with your laser.
Accurate shooting is 90% attitude and 10% skill. Canteen and laser exercises assist the skill. A DI or PMI jumping up and down screaming at you because you are an idiot assist the development of proper attitude.
But, there is no substitute for the satisfaction of seeing the little holes punched through your target. Paper or plastic.

The Air Force does not allow TI's on the rifle range. Too many have been shot at.

I wonder what kind of training you get in the Navy?

Army soldiers can argue about the similarities in the two basic trainings. It's very obvious that Marine recruits are pushed harder than Amry recruits in both mental and physical levels. I have a cousin that entered Army bootcamp noticably chubby, and graduated w/ few physical differences, still chubby. Considering i'm awaiting my trip to bootcamp to become a Marine, i've been hanging aroud the recruiting office for a few months. A recent Marine graduate visited the office on his 10 day leave. He wieghed 200 lbs. entering MCRD (marine corps recruit depot), and returned weighing about 150 lbs. Compare his physical fitness improvement to that of my cousin's. Also, recruits must go through 52 (without sleep) hours of the Crucible before becoming Marines, which includes a 9 mile hike, and then must return 9 miles back w/ their packs. Nontheless, the amred forces need all four branches, and there is no better branch. The Army's advantage is numbers, the Marines' is various things, but they are few.

I am a Marine, and I checked out the Marine Corps before joining the Army. I's a good thing I did too because since I decided join the Marines, and now that I am a Marine, I'm so glad I didn't join the Army, especially seeing the Army as it truely is.

The army and navy offer kids money, $6,000 I think, to join their branch. They even offer promotions after basic training, I don't mean PFC, but Lance Corporal or even Corporal. They need the numbers, they need someone with a pulse to keep their quotas up.

I leave to ranger school in two weeks, but I have to admit there was a time when I wonder would have become of me if I had chose the marines. It seems to me that ppl are mre or less focusing on the physical aspects of marines vs rangers and thats great and all but as a ranger I can say that we can hold our own any day of the week against marines and by the way recon is the weakest branch in special forces. Overall I think the army has alot better "MO's". And as far as the whole non- segregated training goes I think whoever has a problem with that obvously has not spent 9 weeks w/o even a glimpse of a woman.

recons are one of the best branches of special forces in the military. the army rangers is just a bunch of people who volunteered. the marines food service is as tough the army rangers.

i just thought i would say that marine force recon is not even technically a part of the special forces community. back when special forces were officially created, the marines chose to stay out of it for some reason. recon and meu's are the closest thing to special forces the marine corps has, but they are not officially a part of the special forces family. delta, rangers, green berets, and seal's are the only people who can say they are special forces.

Ranger's training is only 2 months, as Force Recon requires Marines to go through 4 six month cycles of traing to becom Reconaissance Marines. This is a total of 2 years. The Marines chose to keep force recon as "special force capable" because they believe that every Marine is a rifle man, and elite. Force Recon is not that well known, but their training is really long. Now that the "war on terrorism" is going on, the Marines are considering to include Force Recon as a special force. Besides, 60% of Navy Seals are Marines.

There are alot of differences between marines and Army. The differences are in scope of practice more than ablility to serve. The Army operates on a more continental basis with more specialty on a wide variety of topics on everything from medicine to clerical work to the infantry. No one in any of the said branches are there forced to its the joy of America its a voluntary service. Now takin that fact the overall concept of marines better than army is a rather arrogent one. I joined up to serve my country and not to be better than anyone else. Infantry, however, in the army its not that bad. When you get up into Ranger, Special Forces, Green Berret and then the legendary Delta Force. Anyone one of these specialties is just as good if not better than the marines. So overall lets cut the crap of marine better than army and do it for the country.

the part you wrote on dicipline was correct but i went to the real army i am a grunt not a puss maybe you can tell me why an ex marine in my unit still cant pass the apft if you ask any real soldier he will still go toe to toe with any marine anytime anywhere

The recruiter and his marine associates told me this: ARMY = Ain't Real Marines Yet

you're just ingnorant dude!!!

I went through Army basic, and It was kind of a joke back in 1989. My cousin just went through Army Basic, and he would call me, and write me and tell me how much fun it was. It wasn't anything really serious. I was a 2004 Olympic hopeful but because of my family I can't afford the training anymore. I am 33 years old and just received an age waiver to go into the Marines. When I get back I will write you and tell you how much of a difference I have seen between the two.
Talk to ya soon
Mike

Lonnie, maybe there's a reason why he's an X-Marine. Anyhow, armed forces is armed forces. Teh differences between our military is the last thing we should be discussing during the time of war possibility. This is especially so for the brave men who have chosen to become Grunts in both the Army and Marines. I will be a Marine grunt soon.

Who in the hell wrote all that bull shit up top apperantly has not been to either Army basic or marine boot camp. What a dumb ass? You're going off tv shows. Hell, Star Trek is on tv but that doesn't mean its real. You said Army Bct isn't segragated. Take a look at Ft.Benning or Ft.Knox see how many women are there. How about you actually try one one off the branchs before you talk shit about it.

The author mentions that the army DOES NOT segregate sexes. As for going based on TV shows, they are completely irrelevant to nonfiction shows such as Star Trek. These "TV shows" were documented, not rehersed.

I have been in the Marine Corps for 8 years, 6 of which enlisted, the last two as an Officer. I have been through Parris Island recruit training, Marine OCS,TBS, Marine infantry school etc. There is nothing in life I am more proud of then my corps, and the proud Marines who serve in it. However, I am the first to admit that much of the "hype" about Marines is not accurate.
The extra weeks of Marine recruit training, as opposed to Army basic is primarily the water survival course which lasts an entire week. Also you have a much longer training phase on the rifle range. The discipline is harsher than the Army, and there is more "top of the lungs yelling." We also have an everyday obstacle course, which the Army does not. Also, many of the obstacle courses we go over 2 or 3 times, whereas the Army only hits them once. But as far as most other aspects I wouldn't think it is that much worse.
The main flaw of Army BCT is that each location varies in certain aspects, different locations emphasize different things in greater or less detail, whereas there only two MRT locations. Ft. Knox and Ft. Benning do not even train female recruits, so they are all males.
The Marines are primarily "Navy Infantrymen." We conduct amphibious assaults, and we are the first to deploy ground troops during conflict. This is simply because Marines are aboard ships...the Army is not. So the Marines are the first to arrive, however in that time, the Army strategically plans out their long scale ground warfare plans. When the Army arrives, they usually encompass the largest threat on the ground, because of their enormous size. So simply put, the Marines and Army have all together different purposes...Marines are the first to the crime scene, and usually never have the objective of actually marching through the whole damn country that's the Army....we stay near the coastal areas, the Army plan out more.
And to cover the last area in question, elite military units. Marine recons, and force recons are some very highly trained guys no doubt, but I would say giving the different functions, they are not "the most elite of elite." The Army special forces (they are the green berets) are trained o perfection. They are in my opinion the most highly trained infantry fighters in the world. Navy SEALs undergo the harshest training by far....yet much of it is combat irrelevant. I mean sure, the tougher you are the more combat ready, but not necessarily the more combat trained. Rangers school is no joke, I have been to it to get a look, and they are put through harsh training, but its oriented towards making them ready to lead the Army into war, not so much special secret combat missions like SEALs and Berets.
Overall, a basically trained Marine is more disciplined, and probably performs better under stress, and with his rifle than a basically trained soldier. The Marines try to keep all members combat ready (i.e. the supply guy, the cook, the admin guy, all get rotated for combat training annually) whereas the Army does not...admin guys are admin guys. However, a Marine cannot kill you with his bare hands and all that goes along with that legend....we do have a martial arts program in the corps, but that takes years to master....you wont have even really started that during boot camp.
Oh yea, and yes the Army needs more number, so they "bribe" youngsters with bonuses and rank promotions. But, the Marines bribe you just as much with something else....being better than the rest (supposedly) and a really sweet dress blue uniform lol. All service branches will promote you for getting friends to enlist before you even ship to boot camp, I think that is awful.

Marines now are starting own special forces
got it off navyseals.com read it

December 24, 2002

Experimental unit born out of war on terror

The unconventional nature of the ongoing war against terror has prompted the United States Marine Corps to form its first elite special operations unit.

The experimental 86-man unit will be based at Camp Pendleton, Calif., and officials said it will deploy with U.S. Navy SEAL teams based at Coronado, the San Diego Union Tribune newspaper reported Friday.

The unit is expected to begin training in June 2003 and will ship out by April 2004, said Lt. Col. Giles Kyser, head of the Corps' air-ground task force special operations section at the Pentagon.

Kyser said the unit, called the Marine Corps Special Operations Command Detachment, emerged after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in New York City, Washington, D.C., and western Pennsylvania.

The new unit is needed, said Marine Commandant Gen. James Jones, because it would be better suited to perform the kind of special warfare tasks needed to hunt down terrorists, such as those operations currently underway in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Jones said he formed the new unit under a two-year pilot program to operate with other units under the control of U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, Fla.

"The events of Operation Enduring Freedom showed there's a greater potential for Marine Corps and special operations forces units to be working together," said Kyser. "We're conducting the kind of offensive operations where operational security and forward deployment make a big difference. That's a natural marriage between naval expeditionary forces and the Special Operations Command."

If successful, the Camp Pendleton-based unit could be expanded or duplicated. The Marines also maintain a base on the east coast at Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Lt. Col. Bob Coates, head of special operations training at Camp Pendleton, will command the new unit.

The new unit will comprise 22 Marines in a headquarters element, 30 reconnaissance Marines, 28 intelligence operatives and a six-person team to provide firepower. It will perform four basic missions: special reconnaissance, such as scouting the enemy; short combat strikes; internal defense of foreign nations; and support of international coalitions.

The Marine unit will perform missions similar to those of U.S. Army Green Berets and Navy SEALs.

Kyser said officials are combing the service looking for the right applicants. He said a number of Marines have already applied for what could be a coveted job in the Corps, which already bills itself as "America's 911 Force."

"Special operations forces are doing things all over the world right now," Kyser said. "It is the right thing to do for each of the services to step forward with what they can to assist them."

At 173,000 personnel, the Marine Corps is the smallest branch of U.S. military service.

Thats all well and good but how is that any different from Delta Force, Green berret, Rangers, DEVGRU, GSG-9, SAS or SEAL's and other special forces? It just sounds like they were asleep behind the wheel and needed a (all be it bad) wake up call.

I served in the USMC, and I would just like to point out some of the things I witnessed while on active duty, Im going to use the majority rule, as this is a Democracy, as a general principle Marines are more Disciplined, Physically Fit, Goal oriented than their Army Counterparts, albeit there may be some exceptions, however almost always comparing Marines to some special Forces element, im speaking of your basic Marines/Army populus,(run of the mill) so to speak, I also noticed much more teamwork and accomplishments on the part of the USMC, they seemed more motivated with a highly contagious can-do attitude which was always apparent, again its just not seen in the Army, well at least not by me. Marines exemplified the much sought after vision of excellence the armed services push for. Think about it, all you army boys should consider yourself glad that you work together, besides its in your nature as an obvious underdog to try an justify yourselves, just accept things for how they really are, and when you get out of the army with a little luck you will have received a good foundation on military lifestyle, now use it, get in shape, stop ragging on Marines and go try an be one. no hard feelings, and dont worry Ill still shake your hand when you finally get to the top of the hill. this is based on my own personal observances, funny how the only ppl looking to slander the Corps are from other branches........that alone speaks Volumes, if Marines felt they were inaqequately trained they would say so. please reply if you feel you must. Semper.

I think your off base in your post in a few places.

First, basic training is just basic training, there is a lot more training to come. Judge the finished product, not the work in progress.

Second, a watching a TV show is not a great way to learn about what is really going on.

Third, and most important, the Army and the USMC are designed to fight in different ways. Both seem to work pretty well.

The short version is that the Marines are more aggressive or reckless than the Army, depending on your point of view, in their tactics.

Fourth, if, in some strange and twisted world, the Army had to fight the Marines, my money is on the Army, as the Army has more heavy equipment, better supply arraingements, and uses artillery better.

ok first of all I think you guys need to stop arguing over which branch is better. I'm thinking of enlisting in the military myself and I don't know what I'd like to specialize in, but I'll figure it out. I came here trying to find out some information from the people who would know what it's like, those who have been there. I found debates instead. We're all on the same side aren't we? Marine, Ranger, Seal? Who cares? It's not about whos better in our military it's about working together and getting the job done. And I did find the female vs. male issue a little discriminatory. Gender should not be an issue. Women can be just as strong if not stronger than men and vice versa. It all depends on the individual, male or female. You show me all the statistics in the world, but when it comes down to it there will always be a few exceptions to the rule.

I just read this whole shfeeel everybody wrote about marines vs. army. And id have to say, it sounds like the army grunts are a bunch of fucking Nancy's.

dude, if I were you, i'd shut the fuck up, you dont know a fuckin thing about the army, for those of you sayin that the marines are the first to arrive into combat, it's true, but not always, the army's airborne divisions can be anywhere in the world in less than 18hrs after notification, and last, for those of you saying that the marines are better than the army, we've got the rangers, delta force(counter-terrorism), the green berets (which can make their own militias) and more than 1.5 million infantry soldiers. What do you got?
p.s the new experimental stealth helicopter (comanche) that's property of the united states army.

calm down. just fuckin with ya. ha ha ha.
but seriously, i don't care what the army posesses. wow a stealth helicopter. regardless of what your in, your a pilot if your in the air. not a speacail forces so stay on the fuckin subject. Yay, the army has alot of shit, the marines are the few, the proud, the brave. as for the rangers, its the easiest elite force to get into. Their is one stardard for men and women in the army, what does that tell you...hhmmmmm?
bunch of fucking nancy's.

I dont know about that men and woman shit, but I went to basic training at fort benning, georgia, and graduated from infantry school. my mos is eleven bravo, and I didnt see a fuckin woman, hell I wish. hah, anyways, I want to attend to ranger school, I already talked to my c.o. about it. It aint no joke. Rangers say that the Panama invasion was easier than ranger school.

Dont forget that a TV show has nothing to do with reality, a TV show is another way of advertisement.

The Army and the Marines are both different. One specializes in land warfare while the other focuses on amphibious warfare. So it's really impossible to say whether one is better than the other (except infantry training not including specialized fields such as Airborne or MEUs). The fact is Marine boot camp is harder than the Army version. Regular infantry aside, Marines are tough, but can they jump out of a plane like the Army's Airborne and Airborne qualified Rangers or Green Berets? Can the same be said for the Army's special units to perform as well as the Marines on a water-based objective? The point is they're both unique and the US needs both for what they do best. There can be no who's better comparison and the talk of one being better is hogwash. That's why the Marines isn't called the Army and vice versa. Hooah! & Semper Fi

Another thing I noticed was that the Army doesn't like PTing in the rain unlike the Marines. Also the Marines are a select few who can arise to the challenge, making them that much more special (but not better than the Army mind you).

When you go to basic training, at fort knox or fort benning, I dont know about the others, but you train no matter what the weather is... I saw the basic training program on the history channel, and there's a big difference between Fort Jackson (the show) and Fort benning. Now what you say it's true, not everyone can be a Marine, that's why every marine is proud of being a Marine, like their motto: the few, the proud, that's why i got respect for them. But some of them say that they are the best of the best, and that's cool, but dont degrade the army.

I will tell you what I have seen personally. I was in the Marine Corps for six years as a grunt. There is truth in that the army does have elite units and the rangers are on par with a normal marine grunt unit. I have not seen any force better than a marine grunt unit in the field. This does not include the rangers as I have not had any experience with them. I have had some experience with the green berets and they didn't really impress me. We were on a training operation and the berets job was to scout the way in and to advise on enemy to our front. Well, they missed the enemy and seemed a little unprofessional to me. They are probably good at training foreigners to fight and conducting guerilla fighting but not great in the field. Maybe they were just not into the training... I have also seen the Seals working in Bahrain and they didn't really impress me either although they sure get lots of money for their training. When the rangers got their asses kicked in Somali, the somalians waited until the Marines were gone before they started any shit. Why would that be I wonder? I also think the way Marines teach leadership gives us an edge. I was a lcpl (e-3) and I was in charge of a squad. We have cpls (e-4) in charge of platoons. How many army units have a e-4 in charge of a platoon? This teaches Marines leadership qualities and they are held accountable for their actions.
One of the reasons why I think our grunt units are so good is that the same people are kept in a unit for three years at a time. You get close to your buddies in those three years. You will fight to the death to protect those to your right and left. They are your brothers. Semper FI

who the fuck are you?, G.I Joe or something?. Now If you were really there with the breen berets on the field, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit,(even on trainin) because you'll be man enough to shut your fuckin mouth, so cut the crap and F.Y.I. in somalia rangers killed over 300 troops and they were like 50, (not sure exactly), in other words, they were fightin a whole fuckin city and they held their own. Gee, I wonder why they haven't made a movie or something about your "grunt" units. since they r so special.

How can you sit there and say the Rangers got there ass
kicked? There where 99 soldiers (Rangers and Delta)
that went into the capital of Somolia that day, 19
of them died but atleast 500 if not more somolians
died. You ganna tell me that if they sent in 99
Marines into that city you guys can do better?
The warlord decided to get ruff when the marines left
because there where so many dam marines there. Why
fight a force that has thousands of troops when you can
fight them while there just in the hundreds. Im not
a Marine so i cant say how there training is, but i will
soon be in the Army heading to Airborne school then
Ranger Training. If i do become a Ranger i wont
look down on anyone. Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force
..to me we are all brave for choosing to serve our
country. So stop with this Army vs Marines bullshit
because at the end of the day we are all fightin on
the same team.

I'm a former Marine Infantryman, and a former Drill Instructor. Someone said that the Rangers were just volunteers or something? You're just wrong. I'll tell you what, if you think that way, you aren't qualified to carry a Rangers rucksack. Without going into it, they're some hard core guys, and... for what it's worth, Ranger School is the most desirable school in the Marine Corps Recon Community. Getting INTO the Rangers is about as hard as anything gets, but getting out is really easy, all it takes is one or two small slips. Further, the Ranger Regiment is comprised of the best soldiers in the Army. I'd be proud to serve with any of them.

As far as the differences between Marine and Army recruit training, the Corps has its reasons... We seperate the sexes so that everyone can focus on training. We spend more time on team building and instilling Esprit de Corps. The focus of recruit training in the Marine Corps is to turn out basically trained Marines: Men and Women who will go on to further training within thier fields. The Army is simply weeding out the bottom 10% and gettng the rest ready for a career in the Army.

As far as the origional article goes: Putting a dime or quarter on the front sight post of your rifle during dry firing is the single best way to learn trigger control... a slight sideways pull translates to a miss in real life. If you can get the dime to stay on the post while you are dry-firing the rifle, then you've applied a correct squeeze to the trigger.

Hanging a canteen off the muzzle is not for making the rifle heavier. You do it because the water inside will begin to move if you move. The canteen will start to swing visibly so the coach can see it. Slight movements in the muzzle translate to BIG movements as the round travels down range.

I fully agree that Army Basic Training is sorely lacking, but lets NOT confuse that with Ranger training or compare it to Recon (They are different animals by the way).

It is apparent by reading this thread, who has served and who has not...

Also, stand by for a whole bus load of Rangers to drop by and say "Hi... how about a nice big cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

Semper Fi

im actually glad that there is an actual marine that has something good to say

I am absolutely baffled at how many people post here who know fuck all about what they are talking about! I am sick to my stomach that people actually think they are justified to talk shit about other branchs of the U.S. Military.

My suggestion would be to, first have a good command of the English language. Second, get your facts straight. Lastly, STFU and listen to your elders. Until you do that you will continue to sound like the pimply faced kids that you are posting here.

To the dick head who wrote this. Who gives a fuck? Really do you really think anyone(besides a civilian) would really listen to your snivelling little opinion on Basic Training. Based off a T.V. show? Really? You have to be kidding. Get your ass out from behind you desk and go sign up. Maybe after you graduate from any basic training, then you might be able to say a word or two. I doubt it though. What a joke.

Most of you here truly stpify me. Sad really.

Ben

When you people (those who haven't taken up the privilege, honor, and sometimes burden of serving in the military) decide to serve, then you can talk smack, until then, feel safe in your dorm room or apartment, or your fucking mommy;s house, go to your colleges and become indoctrinated by the liberal academia, and eat fast food. Because there are true warriors protecting your lazy asses. I cannot believe your fuckers. Once you serve, then come talk to me. Until then, shut the fuck up.

Scouts out.

By the way, the Somalians didn't attack the Marines while they were there because Aidid's (the Somoli warlord) son was a US Marine there in Somolia and really didn't want to be the one responsible of killing his own son!

I do not agree with the comment you made about the Army not dividing sexes. In service for military you need to be able to get along and treat everyone equal. Just becasue you are a female does not mean that they want to distract the males. If you are there you want to work hard otherwise you wouldn't be there right? If you were at war you need to talk to females and learn to work with them so why not start now at basic training.

I agree with the comment of being able to tell who's served and who hasn't by the posts. The lack of information possessed by those who haven't served is staggering. They apparently don't understand that the Army's Infantry OSUT (Basic) is just as long (come to think of it- Marine is 13 weeks, Army is 14 weeks right?) and encompasses much of the same concepts. To the pussy with the comments about the "plastic dime thingy": I can't remember using anything but a real dime, and I challenge you to try and pull 10 times in a row without dropping the dime. The other thing I've noticed is that it's the CHILDREN that have the big mouths, but it's REAL MARINES that have posted that have told it like it is. So, to the REAL MARINES- thank you for showing the true professionalism that I've come to know from the Marine Corps (I lived in San Diego for 10 years before joining the Army), and to the CHILDREN: Fuck You. Sign a contract, learn what it is to SERVE your country's Armed Forces instead of badmouthing them.

First, it's obvious by the verbiage who's a real-deal and who's not.

Second, my son's Infantry OSUT was 14 weeks and is now an Airborne Infantryman. He sees no real difference between Army and Marine Infantry; and he works with them almost every damn day.

Third, the only people who can make any educated comparison are the experienced military personnel. The rest of you are children playing an adult's game; albeit very poorly.

Fourth, the Army and Marines have different purposes and missions. It's almost coincidental they have anything in common. Both services are happy with the way they conduct training and operations; both have handicaps; both have dedicated troops trying to improve things. The rest of you candy-asses remind me of college students quoting rhetoric with no clue whatsoever what-the-hell you're talking about.

Lastly, I was in Somalia for nine months as the XO of the Special Operations Command and Control Element in Mogadishu. I worked with Rangers, Marines, SF and 10 other 'elite' units from around the globe. This horse crap that Somalis did not engage the Marines because of Aideed's son or they were afraid of them is pure unsubstantiated drivel. The Rangers did not fail in their mission. They got the SNA Leaders they were looking for and accomplished the mission with no casualties. They, and several other units, took casulties when they went after the downed air crews. They were making the pick up on fallen comrades AFTER they finished the Mission. That is what we call in the Army "HOOAH".

If any of you pansies want to mix it up about the Army's shortcomings, go for it because I will hand your ass to you on a paper plate.

For the Marines: Drive On Guys, I'm proud to work with you. And don't EVER let your aviation assets become a separate service... ;-)

Tracy-Paul Warrington
Chief Warrant Officer (retired)
US Army Special Forces

You fucking kids crack me up. Chief Warrington basically said it all in a nutshell. Shut the fuck up and go play with your PS2 and leave the subject of the military to those who know. If I want to find out something about video games I'll come back and ask here.

So...who really is the best? I'll tell you....
WHO THE FUCK CARES!!!

The Army is the Army and Marines are Marines. Plain and simple. They have different missions, so trying to compare the two is a moot point.
I am a Marine Infantry Sergeant and damn fucking proud. I have served with many other branches. Guess what the Army has shitbags. That being said, I have encountered my fair share of amphibious shitbirds on my side of the house as well.

Every branch of service has its vices. Listen, we all train to fight the same fight. As long as America accomplishes it's goal, it doesn't really matter who thinks the Army can kick the shit out of the Marines or vice versa.

It is quite apparent that some of you people who post bullshit about every other branch being worthless, really haven't been around long enought to train with other branches. Those of you who have, and still carry that "we're holier than thou" attitude are simple and lack the maturity to admit your own branches deficiencies.
So, to who this may concern....GROW THE FUCK UP!

A slighty agitated Jarhead grunt.

p.s. as for all of you fuckwads whose only experience with the military is either through TLC and Discovery, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
You have no idea what you are talking about. So, quit commenting on what you THINK the military is all about. And as for you little Delayed Entry Program wannabe's, my advice to you is to simply close your cockholsters and open your eyes and ears and absorb as much info as possible.

end of rant

i was going into the ocs school for the marine corps until they told me that it would be a year before i had a chance to go (since they were full...as what they said). so now, i'm going into the ocs school for the army. i've had my heart set on the marines for so long that i think the army is somewhat something less or on a lower level in my mind, even though i know that is not true.

I should hope the majority of you don't breed. It's better to be thought of as a moron than confirm it.

"as for all of you fuckwads whose only experience with the military is either through TLC and Discovery, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
You have no idea what you are talking about. So, quit commenting on what you THINK the military is all about. And as for you little Delayed Entry Program wannabe's, my advice to you is to simply close your cockholsters and open your eyes and ears and absorb as much info as possible."

I'm afraid I can't compete with this statement... hahahahaha

So instead, I'll just reinforce it;

You fucking kiddies who have no clue what or who the hell you are talking about, shut the hell up and go play in traffic or something.

Furthermore, I personally find you "Burger King" and "PS2" generation children to be the biggest batch of pussies to have ever walked on the face of the earth. You little whiney scumbags come to our units, boast about what you think you can do, then fall the fuck out the first time you have to do something that causes you to sweat.

You're all fat, unhealthy, pathetic, whiney little sissies, and I suggest you go do some PT and STFU.

My 2 pesos.

Furthermore, anyone who serves in the military, be it a cook, a petroleum specialist, or a fucking Spec Ops trigger puller is AT LEAST doing his or her small part to better the US military. What the fuck are you little turds doing for your country aside robbing the rest of us of oxygen?

Battboy From Hell
Your Unfriendly Neighborhood Ranger

I think that it is funny as hell the pissing contest that is going on here. I think that what every one who is out there talking shit should get off their lazy fat ass and try to prove something, instead of sitting at there computers whining about who is the best. I am shipping out in a week to become a Ranger. For the past six months I have worked my ass off. I can max the Army and Marines qualifications for physical fittness and I haven't even shipped yet. My brother in law is a Marine, I have mad respect for him and what he does. The point I am trying to make is that if you think one branch is better than the others go join and prove it. I would be willing to bet that half of the people who post on this forum don't have a clue about the military and are going on what they have seen on t.v., which is obvious, is very missleading. Any one who is not willing to go out and serve their country and back up what he or she is saying here holds no weight in this argument. To the Marines out there, I have massive respect for you, Army grunts, I am looking forward to joing this community. We are all fighting on the same side. On top of that in light of recent events this whole argument seems petty as hell.

What batt are you from "Battboy From Hell"?

"It is quite apparent that some of you people who post bullshit about every other branch being worthless, really haven't been around long enought to train with other branches. Those of you who have, and still carry that "we're holier than thou" attitude are simple and lack the maturity to admit your own branches deficiencies.
So, to who this may concern....GROW THE F*CK UP!"

Nicely said Marine.

One of the best deployments I went on was 3 years ago. I was the lone Army guy working with a small group of Marines. Spent 4 months with them. But what do I know? I'm only a Special Forces Medical Sergeant with over 20 years active duty in the Army.

He used to be in A Co. 3rd Batt. Just like me. But seeing that you signed your name as Hooha, as opposed to Hooah, you probably don't know where 3rd Batt is.

I can't believe I read all of this fucking civilian wannabe dribble puke shit.To those who are talking shit about the Rangers...do us all a favor and go get fucked preferably by your Naval counterparts. I saw plenty tough guy marines in both Airborne and Ranger school, with legs a'shakin standing in the door and in the end those that made it were simply HOAH, they weren't marines, they weren't army....they were HOAH. Shits bags get left behind, as most of you will find out if you ever choose to get off your pimply asses.

Cco 1-75
RLTW

I see my comments about the Rangers has stirred up some feelings. Good, that means there is pride in the Rangers. They did, however, get their asses kicked in Somalia. It was not their fault and they handled themselves with honor. They did complete the mission and I have the utmost respect for them. I just like to throw a little jab their way now and again. If you are in the military, we all do it. We like to jab each other, it makes us feel good. But deep down, the ones we jab the most are the ones we have respect for, especially if they fight back. The Marines have had their asses kicked quite a few times, such as in Beirut, it is what they do after that counts, and I think the Rangers have the right attitude. I would be depressed if they didn't get upset over my comments. I jab the navy and fellow marines all the time, any one not infantry gets called a pogue. But those not in uniform have not earned the right to jab...

hey sharky, r u battboy's girlfriend??

Hey, Gruntforlife

Turn to and STFU. Seriously, you think the Rangers lost that fight? They took some casualties, but they accomplished thier mission and killed something like 500-2000 of the enemy in the process. The people they went in there to get were brought out.

If getting into a large scale fight, killing 50-60 enemy troops for every casualty on your side, and accomplishing what you went in to do is losing, how do you define winning?

Oh, I forgot, we Marines are bullet proof, wouldn't have taken any casualties, and killed a few thousand more militiamen.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here Devildog, and I love my Corps, I'm just trying to figure out what you're thinking.

This site, like kiddie porn, is just plain wrong and should be outlawed.

Anybody who thinks that the Rangers got their asses kicked in Somalia is basing their position on a movie and a book; a rather tenuous position at best.

To see the real deal, and to be a Real Deal, enlist now.

0311-
I am a Former Marine (0311) Ground pounder, grunt, slob, call it what you like, I graduated # 1, (1st.Btln Bravo Co. Platoon 1117) I was platoon honor-man AND series honor-man, The BEST of the BEST, one thing I can tell you is that being a Marine changed my life for the better! No doubt about it! Once a Marine always a Marine...Semper Fi...eh hem, I don't think ANY OTHER branch has that type of life long brotherhood...Do you?

However, any man that puts his life for country is a GOOD MAN!

Something like...86% of Fortune 500 companies are run by Former Marines...ever wonder y, ???

Semper Fi!

Hey Joe,

Want to see brotherhood? All the services? Go visit Socnet. Be a professional and you will find it a good place. Be a troll, an ass or an idiot and expect to fry. Children, be warned.

Pugnare, Fornicare, Autmori

Wouldn't it be fun if we could put all of the BTDT's in a room with the bitchy little kiddies and let them go at it??? You 12 year old cock gobblers are just lucky for the "safty" the internet provides you. You all can run your mouth like you have a pair on here because you know nothing is going to hurt you while you are safe in mommy's lap. I would like to see you dickless fools say ANY of this to the BTDT's face to face. To quote an earlier post "SHUT YOUR COCKHOLSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

I understand that alot of you are pissed off at some of the comments placed on here by some younger kids, but what is it with this "pimply ass, non-athletic delayed entry wannabes" bullshit? That's the same kinda stereotipic BS that you guys hate. I asked my recruiter a question after reading all of this. He's a 16 year gunnery sergeant that was 0311 (I seen his '99 excersise crocodile Australia MEU book)26th MEU before recruiting. I asked him what the difference between army and marines infantry was, and he answered with a respectively "I've never served in the Army's infantry, so I can't answer you on that one" No insults from a REAL infantry Marine. Forget the BS, i'm going based on that concept. I haven't been there or done that, so I am no one to judge. But, get off of this stereotypical shit of us Poolees being reluctant to PT. I wasn't able to run a mile without stopping before the delayed entry, and now i'm jogging 3 miles, and went from hitting 2 to an increase of 7 dead hang pull ups. I'm Not MCRD PFT ready or anything, but i'm not reluctant to PT.

even though im not in the armed forces yet and am still in high school, i think that some of you immature kids should NEVER talk shit about things you have NOT done. i have never seen so much bullshit in my life. seriously, instead of writing more crap on this forum, do some PT and learn to "think before you act"

I'm trying to decide whether to go ARMY OCS or USMC OCS. With the former I'd like to end up in the 10th Mountain and then transition to the new Stryker force or intelligence. With the latter I'd be proud to be a Marine, but I get the feeling that I would have much less opportunity for lateral movement in my career. Is this analysis correct? Any examples would be appreciated. Also, my decision making process is being stymied by the fact that I would like to grad school and I have heard that you can take a
LOA and receive half pay while going to school full time, is this true and is it easier in the Army or the Marines? Finally, can anyone compare the 10th Mountain with a Marine Infantry unit in terms of skill level and competency and also training and quality of equipment etc.

All comments greatly appreciated.

Ok then.........Who's tougher?.........Army Rangers.......Or Marines?.......I know that the training the Rangers are put through is nuts........And goes beyond that of Marine Training.......I don't thinks that it's good bashing Army troops, seeing as how they are the most powerful land force on the face of the earth......I know alot of Amry people who are very tough and very well diceplend.......Army and Marine troops should be looked at in the same manner......As U.S. soldiers........Both have faught hard durring the past wars and conflits.

Stop insulting the author for degrading the army/Marines. All he did was point out the differences that he noticed. "Overall, from my admittedly civilian perspective..." So, why are you guys blaming him and calling him names for it? Keep in mind that he isn't the one who got into the "who's the better branch?" or "who's tougher, Marines or Rangers?" deal.

The enlistment in any armed fores has to fit in with brorder career options personal i enlisted in the army not because i wanted to learn how to build roads bridges and other civil engineering projects enlist should be based on what service prepair you for life after the armed service as an ex soldier army plumber
the army give me the ability to blackmail extort
and rob money from inocent victims of blocked pipes

I enlisted for infantry/special forces intent my training consists of basic at fort benning for 13 weeks(thats including ait) and then another 4 week airborne school at fort bragg. I have chosen fort drum new york as my duty station therefore joining the tenth mountian. I have to complete a mountian training course in colorado, which is another four weeks. i have no hatred of the Marines, history speaks for itself, the shores of tripoli, 1804, you fought the barbary states. The halls of montezuma, thats the Mexican war 1846-1848 when the marines fought in mexico city.But never forget the brotherhood instilled in the word of Semper Fidelis "always faithfull" but wasnt that same brotherhood created by a ragtag and weary "continental" army at Valley Forge is it not instilled to this day with the motto 'leave no man behind'. Both branches have proved themselves in vice versa situations was it not the army that stormed the beaches of normandy and also aided the marines in the pacific island hopping campaign.... and was it not the marines who charged saddams desert wall and liberated kuwait. while the 101st airborne and the 1st calvary swept across the Iraqi desert in the Persian Gulf War. We have both shed our share of blood since the birth of this nation. While in DETP i trained with the marine recruits the first and third saturday of every month (though i was not allowed to participate in thier IST), I felt that kinship not soldier to soldier or marine to marine but as an american who is willing to serve thier duty to thier nation. To uphold the freedoms that give birth to this nation and to honor the lives sacrificed to uphold them. I would joke about becoming a ranger,green beret, and delta force and in the same token they talked about going recon,navy seal, and force recon. discussing whos better is a waste of time,every branch has a part to play, even those we seem to forget(such as coast guard and even the national guard). Lets not batter but honor the memory of those 19 rangers killed in the battle of mogadishu. Those men embodied the very integraty of the army's fighting spirit and brotherhood( and its estimated over a thousand somalians were killed), and Beirut is not a very outstanding example either. We are delt the situation given to us and if we dont keep a cool head well have our ass handed to us on a plate.The marines moved with speed and 20,000 men into somalia, impressive.... But dont ever forget the speed that can be deployed by the united states army....Panama learned the hard way. Hell you marines have the mobility advantage over us sure an airborne unit can be launched and droped within 18 hours but can it alone win an effective campaign. But remeber theres more than enough work cut out for the worlds strongest land force. Operation Anaconda, Shah I Kot valley claimed the lives of eight men Army,marine and navy(Navy SeALs), and even an Air Force Combat Controller as we banded together to save a navy seal who had fallen into enemy hands when our helicopter was hit, the seal fell out the chopper and landed alive on the ground before al-queda and taliban forces tied him up and executed him. the helicopter crash landed a half mile away, all seven survivors went back to get thier fallen compadre and all died trying. They went back not because he was a SeAL but because he was a fellow soldier. We need not question each other, we have already been tested on fields like Trenton,Yorktown,Tripoli,Gettysburg,Argonne,The Bulge,Guadalcanal,Saipan,okinawa,Kuwait, and at Shas i kot and Marza i Shariff, and we will be tested again... possibly Iraq,N.korea,Yemen,Syria, Iran.... These are dangerous times and i honor any man willing to fight to protect his country whether he be a healthcare specialist in the army of one or hold true that same Espirit de corps as an Aviation Mechanic. I hope one day to see a marine beside me arms and that same marine happy to see me beside him.

I am planning on joing the military within the month. I was hoping someone could help me out with a couple questions I had. First, I was wondering what exactly i should ask for in my contract for a better chance for special forces in the Army (Where it would be best to be stationed and/or what the best MOS would be?) I also wondered what I should watch out for from the military recruiters. If you have any comments on witch branch I should join I would appreciate all of them. Please E-mail me at l0pedawg@aol.com. The 0 in it is a zero. Thankyou for you time and your help.

im still in high school, but what i heard from other forums, recruiters from the army try to cheat you into signing a "cook" contract. read what the stuff you're going to sign and make sure it is what you want.

and if you're going to a special forces, have you researched and prepared for it ahead of time?

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west !!!

yeah rangerwannube i researched it ahead that is an enlistment option now and so is airborne ranger
know what really pisses me off is the new marine mountain training program stay in the water where you belong and let the big guys handle the peaks

Now how ignorant is that? Really. "Stay in the water where you belong", how 'bout you stick to the subject like the title suggests... I don't understand how something like that would piss you off, it's only training our Marines for better success in warfare. Ambphibious doesn't defy a whole lot of troops, come on "big guy" figure it out, they aren't human ships. How long do you think any of our Nation's troops stay in the water, much less fight in the water... Naval ships perhaps. I know that discussing this is off topic, but come on, I don't see how this could "piss you off" WTF are you a cave dwelling taliban, cuase that's the kind of people that would be pissed off if American troops were mountain training. Seeing as how MEU (Marines) units were the first to be called upon to be deployed in land locked Afghanistan,400 miles away from the sea...gee it must have some large lakes to hold those two Marine Expeditionary Units right tough guy? Both Soldiers and Marines are essential for land warfare, where ever they are needed, realize it.

i just thought i would like to say that the first troops on afghanistan were the 101 airborne and 82nd, the marines arrived at around early december i think, the same night that rockets were flyin over afghanistan, the 101 and 82nd were already on route. rangers were also sent that first day

I have read the army vs marines info. what I would like to know is: what branch has the better training,(not going into SF)to stay alive in(say in the middle of the bush in the veitnam war or that kind of position, by your self or say a squad. And to get out of enemy territory back ot the good side.

Well Smitty, Statistically out of all the Armed Services the Merchant Marines (with no affiliation to the United States Marine Corps) has had the highest survival rate in percentage. However, the Merchant Marines are not an infantry or a war based service, as they are more like the Coast Guard. Out of all infantry (warfighting services), the place to go not to be killed in the Marine Corps. Point in case is the Gulf War also know as Operation Desert Storm. Ill give you the raw numbers. Total Strength or people 240,000. Dead 24. Wounded 88. That is .01% Killed in action, and some of the dead were killed by friendly fire, meaning that an Allied force killed them accidently. Hope this helps and doesn't start another internet war.

The merchant marines deserve a lot of respect from me, highest survival rate, thats not true i respect the fact that they have served there country in every major war and less than five percent of them get veteran benefits but there still there... even though the secretary of the air force screwed them over in 1988 when the "veterans" of the merchant marines that served in world war two wanted veteran status. they lost 1 out of every 26 men that served in that war, there battles include the murmansk run, the battle of bari, and operation torch- north africa. they should be considered the sixth armed service but there not. the merchant marines train LONGSHORESMAN but during times of war hey are called under maritime security.They started all the way back in 1775 when George Washington called upon "privateers" to help his nine ship navy, the captured over a hundred british ships in this time and financed the war, in short.... they contributed to our victory.and the thing i said about just stay in the water i was just kidding, it is now more appropiate then ever to create a more elite force, I'm going to the tenth mountian division and i was looking up mountian warfare school and the marine mountian trianing center in korea came on, i just thought that was interesting i entered the site watched the commercial, and just thought about it for a little while. They use skis as a way of getting to the fight which i admire, but the tenth mountian dropped that idea after world war two after suffering 992 kia while fighting in italy.

by the USMC Mack why dont you look at the war in afghanistan for survival the marine corp has lost nineP: capt. matthew w. Bancroft,29,capt. Daniel G. McCollum,29, sgt. Stephan l. Bryson,35,These six name im about to write died in a helicopter crash due to malfunction....staff sgt. Scott N. Germosen,37, sgt. Nathan P. Hays,21, Lance cpl. Bryan p. Bertrand,23, sgt. Jeannette L. Winters,25, staff sgt. Walter F. Cohee III,26, staff sgt. Dwight J. Morgan. - all those who have sacrificed thier lives in the name of freedom have not died in vain- George W. Bush so according to these figures it is safer to be a marine in times of than it is to be a merchant marine, all right, Mack, and we loss a 118 lives in desert storm if the merchant marine suffered 25 deaths that took with them a good pecentage of those casualties with them. not saying i don't respect the sacrifices of the marine corps or any other branch im just saying.... know what your talking about.

This ones for POLEEMOFO the GREEN BERETS were actually the first ones in and by the way thier part of the army but also part of the now intergrated SOCOM. AND YES A LARGE LAKE COULD PROBABLY FIT AN MEU(Marine Expiditionary Unit). An MEU carries only two thousand men, Thus two carries four thousand, my high school BRENTWOOD,N.Y. carries more than that. thats a good topic though, cross utilization of forces. where as the army luanch more major amphibious operations in WW2 than the marines we( because im a soldier) have primarily drop that as a way of getting into battle though the rangers still use that as an option the army has in bulk dropped it. It is a very high possibility with the shrinking of the U.S. armed forces, thus forcing us to drop many of our bases world wide( that and the end of the cold war) has forced many infantry units to stay on home soil which is a bad thing. Perfect example of this is korea we have 37000 personel there when they reunite do you think they'll want us on the third parrallel making sure they dont kill each other, i dont think so. In other words the marines may be the only rapid response force we'll have in future,the army is thus trying to make its airborne forces such as the 82nd and 101st more ampt stating that they will be deployable within 36 hours any where in the world. but we still need staging areas because its great that we have 22000 men on the ground but what about food and supplies what are we gonna drop them from the sky in fine chance that nothing drifts from the now crowded drop zone and falls into enemy hands, the low flying needed to do this makes them more perceptible to anti- aircraft fire and im not speaking out my ass about this the french tried it at DIEN BI PHU, and hell they even had an airfield helping them out. ALLRIGHT THIS IS ARMY VS. MARINE WEBSITE SO I'M GOING TO STATE THE MARINES PROBLEMS NOW.The marines may be our only global force but they are not an occupation force and there our only 2000 men in an MEU, the problem is you need more men more expeditionary units and need to change doctrines, WHICH THEY ARE WORKING ON NOW,OF ALL THE MILITARY VISIONS 2020 THE ARMYS OBJECTIVE TASK FORCE PLAN IS THE BEST ONE I'VE SEEN WHEREAS THE MARINES OFFER NOTHING REALLY AMAZING OR RADICAL SHOWING THE RESISTANEC TO CHANGE.YOU (MEU) NEED DIVISION STRENGTH FORCES 10000 MEN AT A MIN. I EXPECT SOME RESPONSES I DISH IT OUT I CAN TAKE SOME AS WELL.

THT ONE TO poolee was me the one and only JOE

Our (nations) are great but limited (46,000 us comandos, i may be wrong)This is NOT a Marines vs Army webpage or forum, the author simply pointed out differences between BASIC TRAINING. However, your research on the Marines' changes are not too accurate. By 2012, the Marine Corps. will increase the number of F/A 18s by 3 that are carried by Navy carriers. Secondly, though the Marines lack a special force (MEUs are special operations capable), they are working closely with SOCOM, and if this works out, then operations for US forces will be more organized. The Marine corps. has already made change since the 70's. From amphibious to expeditionary (not just MEUs, but the corps.) The Marines have also had success with close air support, and the Army is working on that with new helecopters that outdate the Corps. But the Corps. air support is significant in battle. MEUs don't need much of a strong hold, they are the first to arrive from the Marines' forces, until more units are ready. Expeditionary is the means of warfare and MEUs are by far not the only units in the Marines training for it... the entire Corps. is. I don't mean to stirr up any internet battles, but Joe the one and only Joe you were off, the Marines are preparing for the future, they're just not jumping in excitement about it when the preasent is current. By 2008 we will see improvements to teh already exceptional Corps.

the marines have a special forces unit ever hear of force recon, also 60% of navy seals are marines i also was pointing the differances between the vision 2020 plans by the way the "exceptional corps", there special forces capable, i know that, but lets see it has taken us three months to get 57000 men in place now lets say that the MEUS are needed to respond, you think that 2000 men will hold out against IRAQ'S peacetime army of 500000 men which during times of war can become more than a million. The " Tanker War" of the 1980's with Iran shows how vunerable our ships can be, if not take an example of Yemen 1998, I don't care how many more amphibious assualt ships you have SHOW ME A TEN THOUSAND MAN ATTACK FORCE PLAN in the vision2020 and ill be qiuet show me a case where two thousand man force has ever defeated 500000 and ill shut up, and show whenever in history that a carrier only task force survived without nearby refueling stations and the marines have always been an expeditionary force check out a world war I book and tell it does not say expeditionary force in it.I gonna bring up a modern example right now, our plan for the war in iraq calls for turkish airbases until today the turks have said no, now we can use there bases if we go another un resolution, this gives Iraq time to prepare,now on the idea that i personally dont know if iraq has nuclear warheads, i know there army looks good only on paper, but can we risk that with lets say North KOREA, do we have time to wait if there ready to duke it out on the southern tip of the peninsula and beat us all the way back to the pusan perimeterare you gonna tell me that the MEU'S are ready to take on a modernized army and beat it by itself i dont care if you empty all the 20000 marines out Japan and storm the beaches of ICHON one more time to make you feel better the 1.5 million man regular N.Korean army will be ready with its 100,000 man SPECIAL FORCES. remember the sale of technologically advanced weapons is the only thing that keeps there country afloat. we need a strong show of force Poolee and even stronger force right behind.

Oh, i happy about that discussion Poolee.... to update information though the continental navy captured 128 ships during the revolution and the merchant marines "privateers" as they were called at the time captured 2280 british ships... one more thing someone needs to create a military forum post board because instan messaging to chaotic for me...I respect only few branches of service though suprisingly the marine corps is one of them, the coast guard is another, and the merchant marines( even though not a armed forces branch).

I know that 60% of Navy SEALS are Marines, but they are a special force for the Navy. Also, Force Recon (800 men strong) is not a special force though it very much qualifies to be one. Well Joe, as for the Marines being outnumbered in warfare, don't forget Kuwait in the war with Iraq. When the Marines asked the Iraqi POWs when they knew they were attacked, most replied "when our artillery began to blow up" This was due to the CAS that the Marines' pilots provided. Though the Iraqi Army wasn't full of volunteers, they outnumbered our troops. You're thinking about the past when Marines would storm beaches and rely on heavy firepower and man to man combat for victories, the units are much more organized in being stragetic now days. I can't name the battles that you ask for, but maybe you can name some where Marines or Soldiers were defeated in such incidents.

To the person who didn't feel need to give a handle,the gentleman asked about combat situations. You can quote the names, quote comments from the president, but all things aside I was responding to a statistical question.In times of war it is safest to be with the A.Merchant Marines and B. The Coast Guard.Those to branches of military mainly becuase they have no infantry capability. And with the Afganistan issue you brought up.I hardly regard a "helicopter malfunction" as a combat situation or even infantry related.I do know my stuff Sir, and certainly more than yourself.As Master Gunnery Seargent in the Marine Corps I would know a little more about our great countrys involvements than yourself.(Myself being a Beriut,Lebenon, Somilia,Gulf War, and Operation Enduring Freedom Marine.)The overall stats don't lie, the Marine Corps Infantry has enjoyed a much highed survival rate than any other armed forces infantry. Your rebuttal to my post had no points that would stike mine down. Joe look over your post and any comment about mine. Like I said the Merchant Marines have NO connection to the United States Marines.

USMC Mack i know the mechant marines are not marines they are called MARINERS. i also stated how they are not a branch of the armed service though i times of war they do not fall under maritime security, I was pointing out the fact that you said some of thier losses were from friendly fire so i showed that some marines have died of a malfunction, not saying that i don't respect thier sacrifice, i was just pointing out that as a MARINER you also face risk so i wrote down the fact that 1 out of every 26 died in WW2 thats more than any other branch.BUT THEY ARE NOT A BRANCH OF SERVICE NOR ARE THEY GIVEN VETERAN STATUS,when i enlisted for the army i was on line at fort hamilton to hand in my paperwork before i could get sworn in,there were four other lines they were the navy, marine corps, air force, and coast guard. NO MERCHANT MARINES, i would love for them to become an armed force but sadly thier not.

Poolee... still you don't get it i was talking about the future of warfare with dimishing of us army bases,that we need to upgrade our forces and you hand me this shit.... come on your talking about months of build up with 100000 marines your not talking about an MEU here, your talking about weeks and weeks of airiel bombardment, your talking about a post battle of KHAFJI were iraq lost most if not all of its kuwaiti armor strength, and worst yet your talking about the 101st, 82nd, and 1st calvery charging into southern iraq itself to take on the republican guard. POOLEE re-read my post examine the facts and then post a better defense than that!!!

those socnet guys have nothing better to do then run around the net acting tough, when in reality, they are all at each other's houses sucking each other off......

Marines had taken 22 Iraqi tanks BEFORE the battle of Khafji. I never mentioned the Army charging into Iraq, nor was I degrading their abilities, you're the only one trying to argue the subject of which branch is better, and doing a poor job at it. If you think that the 40 tanks in Khafji were the Majority of Iraqi's strong hold in Kuwait, you are once again OFF. Within just days of fighting in Kuwait, Special Forces, Marines, and allied forces had killed over 300 tanks.

"I don't care how many more amphibious assualt ships you have SHOW ME A TEN THOUSAND MAN ATTACK FORCE PLAN in the vision2020 and ill be qiuet show me a case where two thousand man force has ever defeated 500000 and ill shut up" No one mentioned the MEUs taking on ANYTHING by themselves. We have 7 MEUs, do the math. They won't be going in alone, and get off of those JOHN WAYNE movies and realize that our ARMED FORCES' Marines aren't going to do something so foolish. When was the last time that Marines "STORMED BEACHES?" You have an obsession on having arguments of which branch is better, when in reality, they are all needed regardless of your BS. Good luck in life.

Poolee the argument that was started was about the future of the united states MILITARY as a global presence, i am in the army, which i slowly but surely losing military facilities around the world the MARINES may in the future be the only force capable to respond to war,since the U.S. is short on allies i wondered how they cold respond to this problem but looking at thier VISION2020 I saw that many things had been overlooked now if i remember correctly GRENADA 1983 was the last time marines stormed the beaches, 1992 SOMALIA they simply got off on the beaches but came with assualt craft anyway, and don't mess with JOHN WAYNE SANDS OF IWO JIMA WAS A GREAT MOVIE.POOLEE did you join a branch?

Sure did join a branch, USMC. I'm currenty waiting upon my shipment to MCRD (hence the name Poolee) The argument didn't begin over vision 2020, you infact are the only person arguing that. It began when you said: "know what really pisses me off is the new marine mountain training program stay in the water where you belong and let the big guys handle the peaks"
You got into the problems with the Marines. My only argument was WHY would such a thing PISS you off?? United Kingdom's ROYAL Marines handle the peaks better than anyone and are called upon by us for help with them. Yes I know that the Royal Marines don't have a relation with US Marines besides training together at times. It seems that our armed forces have found somewhat of a solution to the shortage of ground troops... better aviation strategies.

I am SO fucking embarassed right now, buncha damn fucking morons fighting over Army and Marines.

Hello?.....It's the individual who makes the fucking diffenrece here.......Not the Branch.......You show me a Marine thats one helluva badass and can fight with the best of'em.......and I'll show you a fucking Army soldier who could fucking bash his skull in.....and Vice Versa.

Stop being Idiot's!

You wanna see who the real badasses are? The real fucking hero's?

Go take a trip up to Fort Benning or Paris Island.

Fuck off!

You should be embarrassed because you're the only moron in here. First off Joe is a Soldier (US Army) so he's earned the right to argue this shit. Secondly, I was never arguing which branch was better, and I always give respect to all the branches nor was I arguing that either branch is better (read the posts) jackass... SO fuck off.

Hey! I once took a field trip to fort benning, when I was in high school, Army JROTC

am I considered a hero?

OK. I think that is it. I've gotten a whole bunch of comments of which about 12 have actually dealt with the topic. It's not about merchies v. marines, Rangers v. marines, Farah Aideed's son or anything else. I've let everyone have their say, and now I'm shutting comments on this post down.

POOLEE thanx for defending me against FNG but i stated like fifteen post ago that i was kidding about the Marine mountian training school. it was fun arguing with you. I hope i meet you in real life man always remember SEMPER FI and ARMY OF ONE.

My post applies only to basically trained Marines and Soldiers, not the 1% or so that makes up all of the elite units (the most elite of which we know nothing about and are for the most part nameless).

My personal experiences have led me to see that the majority of Marines are no better trained, motivated, tough, etc. than their Army counterparts....Infact most Marines are about as undisciplined as a 14 year old, when they are off active duty. The Marine Corps seems to appeal to those youngsters who have something to prove, becuase they have low self esteem. The ones that do not, seem to be the muscle bound knuckle heads. Now this is surely not applying to ALL of them, but this is a very obvious depiction of most enlisted Marines. They simply have longer boot camp...so what?? Military life begins at your first duty station. Marines try and make themselves sound better than all the others, but it is just to attarct those who feel that is the only way to look good. They make many of their combat units feel as though they are the bets of the best, simply to aleviate the fears of being killed. In reality the Army has far more MOS's, much more technology, and without a doubt an equally "war prepared individual"...just as disciplined, just as tough, and just as good at teamwork...but a lot smarter on the average. Besides, to be a Marine you have to like the ocean and ships....many people have no desire what so ever to be at sea! Marines are taught more to die for thier country, Soldiers are taught more to kill for thier country. Look in our history pages....who has fought the large majority of battles...who has won the most...? The Army has. Don't judge a book by it's cover!

If the Marines Corps and Navy ever look to the eye of heavens beholder, they will see there stands a United States Soldier.

ADA ALL THE WAY!! HooaH

The Army's 7th Corps alone (1st Armored, 1st Mech, 3rd Armored and 2nd ACR) destroyed 5 Heavy (armored or Mechanized) Iraqi divisions during the left hook attack. They destroyed 2,500 Iraqi Tanks and Infantry Fighting Vehicles.
P.S. Batt Rangers are not the only ones that go to Ranger school. (These are my estimates) Nearly 55-60% of Infantry Troops in my unit 3/187th 101st Airborne (AA) alone will go to pre-ranger and more 60% pass. This not to mention that in an average Army Infantry Platoon you will have at least 4-5 soldiers Ranger qualified. Ranger School is for most a leadership school that test's your leadership ability during some of the most harsh conditions.

P.S. Fort Benning is not Fort Jackson, big difference. One pain and suffering for 14-17 weeks the other a fun summer camp where the TV people come to film how much fun they are having.

im just gonna say my training lasted 17 weeks, BASIC(9 WEEKS), A.I.T.(4 WEEKS), and AIRBORNE SCHOOL(3 WEEKS). thats a bit more than the 13 week training the marines get. I have a lot of respect for the crucible, a bit more than the victory forge.but when it comes down to it we are the most respected branches,so of course if the navy,air force, and coast guard won't take a go at us, we have to do it to each other.the marines do things more than once at boot camp where as we do things one time and a week of marine boot camp is a water survival course. we are basically the same thing,lets face it,I'M gonna defend the army of course and ill stare down in the eyes of any marines who thinks he has the right to mouth off about his semper fi brotherhood, but ill give him alot of respect he stares back,(ill tear him a new asshole), but ill respect him, boys we are the tip of the sword, the infantry,king of the battlefield , whether marine or army.we are the ones who carry the nation on our shoulders whether our grand beggings began with the continental army or nicholas marines.BY THE WAY WHERES MY BUDDY POOLEE

BY THE WAY TO STAY ON THE SUBJECT where IN GODS BLUE HELL DID THEY FILM THE SHIT THEY CALLED BASIC TRAINING I WOULD OF GIVEN MY ARMS AND MAYBE A LEG FOR A GIRL TO BE AT BENNING AND THAT PUSSYASS CRAP,THEY DID I COULD TAKE MY FUCKING LITTLE COUSINS THERE FOR VACATION(I'M ONLY 18, NO KIDS, PHYCHOATIC BITCH GIRLFRIEND THOUGH, WHOM I LOVE TO DEATH, SHE KEEPS ME IN MY PLACE). BUT WHEN THE FUCK DID BASIC BECOME THAT EASY THE SEARGENTS WERE THE QUIETEST ONES I'VE EVER MET. THERE NINE WERE A GODDANM GIRLSCOUT PICNIC TO MY 17. JUST ANOTHER CASE OF THE MEDIAS MISLEADING AND IRRESPONSIBLE REPORTING.

Fort Jackson, like I said there is a difference between combat and support troops.

Follow Me....if you can keep up!!!

2 words:

JOHN RAMBO lol

Keep dreaming buddy. Let's not forget, the Marine Corps has a 13 boot camp. Followed by 2 plus weeks of Marine Combat Training. Which brings it to a total of almost 16 weeks, nearly double that of the Army. Then they go to their respected MOS
Schools. How's that for training.

Okay, so the Army gets paid more, gets better equipment, AND is just generally better than the Marines?

Bull shit.

Everybody wants to be the 'most elite'.

I'll give a sturdy nod at any Ranger, Seal, or the likes, but when looking at all of it, they stand right next to the Marines in my book.

However, to say a common Army grunt is anything compared to a Marines grunt is just plain rediculous. An Army Ranger grunt, now that'd be more understandable.

The Marines is an elite branch of the military, and deserves respect. Army-types will say otherwise, but most Army-types that joined (and didn't join to end up in Rangers, even if failed at the attempt) joined simply for the money.

Granted, you're doing your duty towards the nation, and that's great, but do not make it seem as if your sole purpose in joining the Army was to fulfill that patriotism, because more than likely it was all those hefty bonuses and college money.